Author: Vecher (RU server)
Hello warriors,
this post was inspired by Vecher, who proposed an interesting thing. As you perhaps know, several vehicles in the game are equipped with unhistorical guns. One of them is the KV-2 and its 122mm U-11 howitzer. This gun was never mounted on the vehicle as it was only developed after most KV-2's were destroyed, captured or phased out (in early 1942). Furthermore, KV-2 turret was specifically developed to hold the 152mm gun, putting a smaller gun in it makes no real sense. The U-11 gun was later on used on the KV tank, yes, but that was the KV-1 turret (such modified, the vehicle was called KV-9).
What Vecher proposes is to get rid of the unhistorical gun by replacing it with something else. This is however not the plan of Wargaming as Storm specifically confirmed that in HD, KV-2 would have the same guns as it has now. The reason why the U-11 was introduced in first place is actually quite old - veterans might remember that in World of Tanks, KV-1 and KV-2 used to be one tank (on tier 5) - yes, the 152mm KV-2 used to be tier 5 and yes, it was exactly as OP as you think it was. The U-11 was one of the alternative guns for the KV-1 turret, that used to be the stock turret of the vehicle (elite turret was KV-2). When the vehicle was split, the developers (unwilling to change anything) simply took the U-11 gun over for the KV-2 (in the old KV, the gun was usable in both stock and elite turret).
The solution would be to replace the 122mm U-11 with the 152mm model 1909/1930 (very short 152mm gun). This is how it looks:
This would actually make the vehicle more historical because - as mentioned above - the big turret was made specifically to house a 152mm gun. This is how the modified version would roughly look:
But what about the other tanks that have this gun? Well, actually, strangely enough, there was a project of the T-34 tank equipped with this gun, although in a very different turret. It was called T-34Sh ("shturmovoy" - "assault"), also known as T-34G or T-34-122. It was developed and proposed in 1942 but with the appearance of the SU-122 and SU-152, it became obsolete and was cancelled in the Autumn of 1943. This is how one of the proposals looked. It would be a good premium tank actually.
As for T-43, the 122mm version is probably a fake.
The old Tier V KV was OP, but you need to consider that, before the general accuracy buff, it was a lot harder to hit anything at all with a "derp" gun. All the infamous 152mm menace tanks built up most of their reputation pretty much after the accuracy buff.
ReplyDeleteOn t6 the 152 mm is clearly the better gun. On t5 however the 107 mm was superior. Because it could oneshot enemy tanks on that Tier every 9s .. Lel
DeleteAye, although the most feared gun on the Tier V KV back in ye olden days was the 107mm as it could pen almost anything it got against, even some of the Tier VIII tanks the KV saw due to the special MM back then.
DeleteAnd as the Thor said, it could one-shot anything smaller and even some Tier V tanks every 9 seconds.
Old KV could meet Maus and IS-4. Tier 8 tanks were one of the better mms for it. KV needed those guns, especially 152 mm. It could one shot tier 6 and hurt even tier 10s, especially when we consider that it was before big HE nerf.
Deleteguys, it's not about which gun is better. Who cares about reload or penetration ? If I wanted great and versatile gun, I wouldnt be driving fuckin KV-2!
DeleteIMHO 152mm is the way to go. It's the most FUN tank to play.
Yeah it's not versatile, and you might do better with different gun, but would it be the same FUN ? Oneshotting 3 heavy tanks in a row :D
Anyways, i dont really get the idea of the author. In the post stands that he wants to replace the unhistorical 122 mm u-11 with the 152 mm Mod. 1909/1930. His reason therefore Is that the turret was designed to hold a 152 mm gun.
ReplyDeleteThis makes the gun - in some kind of way in his eyes - "more historical" then the 122 mm u-11. Yet still, without a proposal of the Short 152 mm for that Tank/turret, this gun is infact - still - unhistorical. I dont see this being considered for that simple reason.
at least, caliber wise it is historical
Delete(btw looks better too)
I'm the original author of an idea and there must be some clarifications to the text above. The first proposal in 1939 to produce heavy assault tank was to mount 152 mm Mod. 1909/30 howitzer on original KV-1 tank. After heavy brainstorming (KV-2 was fully developed in only two weeks) engineers considered that it is impossible to squeeze such a large weapon into standard KV-1 tourret and started to develop high tourret that fits into standart KV-1 tourret ring and can hold 152 mm gun. After modelling high tourret it appeared that much more powerful weapon - M-10 howitzer can fit in it. Thus they simply put a better gun into high tourret than it was planned.
DeleteI just propose to use the inintially considered gun against the U-11 that was never planned for use in KV-2.
+1. that makes sense now.
DeleteHistorical = when we feel like it. seeing the hellcat had a 20kph reverse speed in real life. That can be tested as some working models still exist.
ReplyDeleteAlso 92 kph forward
DeleteWell they ruined the Hellcat, forward and reverse.
DeleteDon't forget that the historical hellcat didn't had that elite turret and gun. If I remember correctly those two would have negatively influenced the speed of it.
DeleteThat and the top speed results were from a paved road, it can't do that quick on natural terrain.
DeleteNot to account for the turret or the hull rotation speed...
ReplyDeleteSo there is a T~34 with 122mm derp project?
ReplyDeleteThen I dont understand this. T-34s were armed with 76mm guns when it was first used. Later soviets upgrade it to 85mm. Czechoslovakia engineers mount 100mm lguns in T-34s they had (I saw in tank archives or ftr, cant rememberl)
Now, 122mm derp? Why dont they just put a 152mm mod.1909/1930 (possibly a sightly bigger turret) on a T-34 chassis?
Also, if T-34s are that capable in bring bigger guns to the battlefield, why will they become obsolete?
Because "bring bigger guns to the battlefield" != make good tank
DeleteYes, 152 could be mounted on T-34, if only you dont care that it can shoot every 2 minutes, the accuracywas so low that it should be used on distance below 500 meters, and of course you had to replace suspension every month.
It was special version planed to use in special condtions - and so tells its name: T-34Sh ("shturmovoy" - "assault")
Assault tank, produced in very small numbers to assault fortified positions.
Su/Isu-155 was better in this job, so t-34s become obsolete.
just want to know if there are any self propelled arty based on T-34?
DeleteFacing a KV with a U-11 is so funny, they can't hit you and if they do it does little damage and takes so long to reload you just roll up behind it and blow it to bits, haha.
ReplyDeleteI would rather have the KV-2 armed with the 09/30 gun than a weak U-11. You can easily do damage and it will train noobs way of the derp.
ReplyDeleteNone of the guns used by the current T-43 were fitted to it historically. Only the F-34 and D-5T were ever fitted
ReplyDeleteHellcat couldnt go reverse , only forward 90+ kph
ReplyDeleteThat seems highly unlikely...
DeleteAlso, the original data plates mounted on it clearly specify a reverse speed of 20MPH. (http://m18hellcat.com/m18hellcat/Articles/Entries/2010/5/29_Hellcat_Data_Plates.html)
Question, is the 107mm gun on the KV2 unhistorical as well?
ReplyDeleteThey could but never did it
DeleteThey did fit one with it for trials
Deletehttp://img.kongzhong.com/mil/20140701/c595be1322_1404203559.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCRAnasY90
ReplyDeletenice home-made KV-2.